enter one furious journalist

[chanter1944]

How dare they?

I've just heard via the BBC that the US Congress is attempting to pass a legislation amending the constitution so that English would become the official language of the United States.

What the *colorful phrases in several languages* do they think they're doing? The answer would probably be some long-winded speech heavy on the rhetoric and involving words like "fitting in" and "should be thankful", unless I miss my guess... or my more than slightly satirical view of the right wing.

Have they not taken one nanosecond to realize that this proposal flies in the face of everything from the Civil Rights Act to the concept of the open, nonjudgmental society we're supposedly promoting around the world? Emphasis on supposedly. And don't even get me started on the imposition of an official language inflaming tensions between social groups, to say nothing of international relations.

This makes the idea of our promoting democracy here there and everywhere that much more laughable... granted that isn't hard to do to begin with. So it's another case of do as I say, not as I do, is it? God, what am I still doing in this bloody country?

and this coming down from a right-leaning Congress lead by a president who can barely master his choice for "official" languages. Nucular indeed.

Todos los ciudadanos educados y creen que los libertidades civiles y derechos humanos deben continuar, levantanse y hacen los politicos oirlos!

Take *that* to your capital hill and smoke it.

Comments

[meiling196.livejournal.com]

Oh that is sad. That is very very sad. Especially coming after this big controversy over illegal immigrants... Not to mention all the other dumb things Bush does. I want a new president.

You should email the white house and mention Bush should try mastering his choice for an official language though.

[spunbutterfly.livejournal.com]

"The Bush administration has yet to take a formal position, although as governor of Texas, George W. Bush spoke out against Official English and anti-bilingual-education proposals."

- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/langleg.htm

[meiling196.livejournal.com]

Oops. Well I blame getting up way to early in the morning to think properly :P

[kitrona.livejournal.com]

At least I know that, somewhere in Wisconsin, there is someone who agrees with my political views.

This is flat-out STUPID, and I haven't the slightest doubt that they hatched this "wonderous plan" because of the immigrant issue. Sure, encourage people to learn English, require it to immigrate, even, but official language? Does that mean people who speak another language in their own homes (because we know the government likes to push themselves even into the bedroom) are punishable by law? What if someone /doesn't/ speak English, but they're trying, by taking classes or such? Is THAT punishable by law?

This is so stupid. There are so many other issues that need attention, and they're wasting their time on THIS??

I call for a march on Washington! Er. Somethin'. Considering that I'm entirely sure that... no, actually, I'm not. I was going to say that I was sure our representative would vote against it, but Indianapolis used to be a big KKK headquarters, and much as I want to secede from Indiana and attach our county to Illinois, it won't happen. Unfortunately, we seem to be the only county that has more than about 5 Latinos, so they're not exactly visible to the rest of the state. (I actually like the Latinos that live near us... don't know much about the others, but these guys seem hard-working, and they're mostly quiet, except fo the circus music they play. Even that's better than rap, though.)

Sorry for the rant. :)

[spunbutterfly.livejournal.com]

Does that mean people who speak another language in their own homes (because we know the government likes to push themselves even into the bedroom) are punishable by law? What if someone /doesn't/ speak English, but they're trying, by taking classes or such? Is THAT punishable by law?

No.

* English would be designated the official language of the U.S. government – indeed, the only language that federal employees and officials, including members of Congress, would be permitted to use for most government business.
* The English Only mandate would extend to federal "actions, documents, policies ... publications, income tax forms, informational materials," records, proceedings, letters to citizens – indeed, to any form of written communication on behalf of the U.S. government.
* Exceptions to the ban on federal use of other languages would be permitted for purposes that include national security, international trade and diplomacy, public health and safety, criminal proceedings, language teaching, certain handicapped programs, and the preservation of Native American languages.
* An "entitlement" would be created, ensuring the "right" of every person to communicate with the federal government in English – in effect, a guaranteee of language rights, but for English speakers only.
* Civil lawsuits to enforce the law would be permitted by persons claiming to have been "injured by a violation" of it – a "right of action" that could give virtually any taxpayer the standing to sue in federal court.
* Naturalization ceremonies would be specifically restricted to English only.
* Bilingual provisions of the Voting Rights Act, which guarantee minority-language voting materials in certain jurisdictions, would be repealed.

And the first time this was an issue was in 1981, as well as, like I said previously, during Clinton's administration when the House passed the legislation but it failed in the Senate in 1996.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/langleg.htm

As well as any page you google the terms: official language legislation congress

[kitrona.livejournal.com]

And how often are government "actions, documents, policies" and the rest in anything OTHER than English? My husband works for the Federal governemtn, and I'm fairly sure that he doesn't encounter this on a regular basis.

Yay, legislated discrimination.

[spunbutterfly.livejournal.com]

.... and the point of that was?

I was pointing out to you that nowhere in there does it state they will police the languages you speak at home. At no point are they saying we're going to go into your home and make sure you are speaking English. I wasn't disputing the fact that English is already the predominant language in most official documents. But there are still publications, forms, and other documents that are printed in other languages, usually Spanish.

So again, what was the point of your comment back? Maybe you should use smaller words, English isn't _my_ first language.

[kitrona.livejournal.com]

I was unclear as to your intent.

And I'm done. If you can't debate without getting snarky, I have no use for you. Obviously I hit a nerve with my wondering about English being spoken in homes, but as you've admirably proven that as of now, they won't worry about that, I have no more to say. Congratulations, you won!

[spunbutterfly.livejournal.com]

If I was debating, I'd say yay me. But there's no victory here, because I was regurgitating facts from another website. I won't state my opinion on this subject either way except that knee-jerk reactions suck.

If you thought I was being snark, I'm sorry? I guess? English is not my first language, though I am now fluent in it, and thought maybe your out of field response actually was relevant to what I had cut/pasted from http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/langleg.htm and I, in my non-native speaking state, completely missed the point.

[spunbutterfly.livejournal.com]

Just, FYI, this is not the first time someone has tried to make English the official language. It was done at least once that I recall during President Clinton's terms.

There's also the difference of Congress wanting to pass this legislation and President Bush fueling it, are you guys positive it's Bush pushing it forward, especially given his homestate of Texas is one of the 23 states that have NOT enacted an official English law in their state constitution? There are 27 states that have, including California, and as one of your comments stated, their state (Indiana) and Illinois both have enacted official English legislation.

Y'know, I'm all for Bush bashing because he's not a very good president, but it's good to know some of the story before bashing.

[kitrona.livejournal.com]

I didn't state that, but it may be true.

[spunbutterfly.livejournal.com]

I know you didn't state that, I did and it is true. You stated the state you reside in was Indiana. I was just pointing it out to you that fleeing your state or 'seceding' your county to the next state over would do you, presumably, no good if you are set against official language. Note, I haven't even stated my position on the debate, except that if you're going to say alarmist comments, and go all out to say this or that, at least know what's going on in your own state and those around it:

Indiana Section 1-2-10-1 - State Language (1984)
The English language is adopted as the official language of the state of Indiana.

Illinois Statute: Chapter 5, Section 460/20 - Official Language (1969)
The official language of the State of Illinois is English.

KENTUCKY REVISED STATUTES, Section 2.013 - State Language (1984)
English is designated as the official state language of Kentucky.

Maybe consider moving to Ohio. They don't have an official language statue in their constitution.

[kitrona.livejournal.com]

That wasn't why I said our county should secede, actually. As I stated below, I think legislating this country-wide is silly, and will only promote bad feeling. Our county should secede for much more practical reasons than that, but this isn't really the place to get into that, as it has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.

[swami-bob.livejournal.com]

Well, let me put it to you this way.

When I'm at the DMV, they have TRANSLATORS to take their tests because they can't read the street signs and frnakly that scares me. They have tests in multiple languages. People who do not speak English well do not progress in society.

Making English the official language makes sense to me. Beaureaucratic expenses will be reduced and the playing field will be just a bit more level.

Also, let me put it to you this way, since you liked to say something in Spanish, do you think Mexico has dual language forms? I can tell you for a fact they don't (at least as of the last time I was in Mexico). If you were to move to France do you think they would provide you with dual language forms? No, you have to learn French.

And for the comment about being unable to speak their native language in their own homes, well, at the risk of being offensive, that's stupid and alarmist.

But then again, I wouldn't expect anyone who has such blind hatred for Bush and Congress to step back and actually look at this objectively.

As for me, I'm all for it.

[kitrona.livejournal.com]

It's acually not. The government has stepped in to legislate what's legal in peoples' bedrooms, why wouldn't they extend that to the whole house?

Nope, sorry, no blind hate for Bush and Congress. General disdain for wilful stupidity, yeah.

I'm for encouraging people to learn English, and I see no reason that citizenship ceremonies should be held in anything OTHER than English, but as I said, there are so many other issues that need attention that this all seems rather... odd.

And thanks for reading something into my comment that wasn't there.

[swami-bob.livejournal.com]

I hate to break this to you, but every country has some sort of legislation restricting sexual activities or "in the bedroom" activities. Are these laws in enforced? In countries like the US, no, they're mainly unenforceable due to our rights to privacy, et cetera. But in other countries where privacy isn't so respected, they are enforced.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of every move Bush and/or Congress makes being hailed as stupid, et cetera. I don't really have much love for the man, and I haven't been very secretive about that fact. That said, I feel like a lot of people bash on the Congress or President not because of any rational thought but just instead a knee-jerk reaction for their dislike of Bush/Congroess/government in general.

[kitrona.livejournal.com]

You can be tired of it, but since it's not me hailing "every move Bush and/or Congress makes" as stupid, I hope that comment was addressed to the US at large.

I really do think this is stupid. There are much better ways to achieve the same goal, or similar, without even the appearance of discrimination, let alone getting immigrants up in arms. Even letting it cool down for a few more months would be preferable, because even if this isn't a reaction to the immigration issue, it will be seen as one.

That said, my in-laws immigrated from Haiti, and while they have an accent, they still speak perfectly understandable English. I just don't think legislating this country-wide is a good idea.

[kitrona.livejournal.com]

Of course, my in-laws also went to the trouble of becoming citizens, so maybe they're not representative of the immigrants now.

[swami-bob.livejournal.com]

No, it wasn't aimed at you. You debate intelligently :) As for your parents, that's awesome. They worked within the system. It's funny, all the people I know who immigrated here were so pissed off at a "day without immigrants" and all of them were from Central/South America. Their opinion was, "I did what I was required to do, what makes you so special as to bypass it?"

I have nothing against immigration or maintaining a connection to one's culture, I feel that's very important, but I also think if you choose to live here you really should learn to speak English. It's a statistical fact that if you don't speak English you are at a strong disadvantage. I also feel that encouraging illegal immigrants to be able to work is doing them a great disservice. They are not protected by employment laws and they cannot report their employers for abuse. They are not entitled to minimum wage (which is still a joke). I have to wonder if people who are so insistent on any immigrant's right to work really support the exploitation of laborers? Why else would they encourage it?

I just don't get it.

[morcath.livejournal.com]

Take a deep breath. Making English the official language of the United States is not the first step toward the jackbooted Thought Police reading your mind. It simply makes it possible for everyone to know what to expect from government offices, and encourages newcomers to learn the language of the government that runs things.

Canada (where I live) has two official languages. It's a pain to have two. I wish we only had English.

[goldenlily.livejournal.com]

Ahem.

It's not English. It's American. :)

*duck*

Besides, I happen to agree it's a good level playing field, though I think it should be for everything outside the home. What happens in the home is your own business.

I'm a scientist. The official language of Science is English. I'm also from a country that's in danger of being consumed by the EU and be a homogenous mix. My parents are also moving to France. No one speaks English, everything is in French, and as such, even though it's part of the EU they are taking French lessons (including my father who has no tongue for languages).

I think there's room for individual identity within a common goal.

[morcath.livejournal.com]

It's not English. It's American. :)

Hey now.. I'm not American and I talks the Queen's english real good, yeah? Other peoples should talks english as good as I does.

[chanter1944]

Holy crud crunchies. All this for a furious post made at one in the morning. Yes, I'm still steamed over the idea, but... wow, I didn't expect it to spark this sort of a flurry.

*reads through all the lively debate* ooh, lots to think about, certainly. My reaction stands, but I have loads to think over now. And *blushes* I suppose I should have done a little more research there... would have if I wasn't jolted out of half-asleep contentment by that story coming over the radio.